Week 5 Questions/Comments-327 13

1 Comparative questions or comments
I felt that Eliza Wilkinson and Grace Galloway's accounts allowed for many different comparisons of the way women led their lives during the time of the revolution. What was interesting, however, was that both women through their account also exposed that women were in fact unhappy with their situation and societal constraints. Some argue that it is not until someone starts a movement that rebellious or discontented sentiments grow, but perspectives such as these women show that even without knowing what it would be like to live in a freer world for women, they knew they desired and deserved such a vision. That singularly impresses me. -Katie Redmiles

The comparison between Eliza Wilkinson (a patriot) and Grace Galloway (a loyalist) is very interesting. Wilkinson wants her opinions to be taken seriously and respected while Galloway does not want to be held responsible for her opinion. This difference in opinion, even among women, about women's capacity to understand politics or participate in politics is one of the reasons it took women so long to gain the right to vote. - Amy Wallace

Many of these sources reveal very little about the common American woman during the Revolution. The sources that are actually written by women all come from elites like Eliza Wilkinson, Grace Galloway, Abigail Adams, or intelligent, educated women like Judith Sargent Murray and Phillis Wheatley. While Sarah Osborn reveals what life was like for a camp follower, her recollections are self-censored because they are a part of an application for government pension. I think it would be interesting to find out about the experiences of the average American woman living on the homefront during the war. -Mary Fesak

With Judith Sargent Murray and Esther DeBerdt Reed, we see women using religion as a force for liberation instead of repression. Like the Quakers, Murray invokes the idea of spiritual equality: “our souls are by nature equal to yours…we are not fallen lower than yourselves”. Reed draws on concrete women of the Bible and history to promote political activism in women. In both cases, their interpretation and use of Christianity contrasts strongly with patriarchal interpretations that ignore biblical women like Judith and Esther in favor of condemning Eve for the fall of man and strictly interpreting Paul’s missive that women should remain silent in church. Religion and society seem to feed off of each other, the one justifying the other in a cycle, and by looking at the different interpretations of the same texts, we see how different groups use religion to support their own goals. --Sarah Palmer

2 Thomas Paine Admits Women Have Some Rights, in 1775, from Major Problems in the Era of the American Revolution, 288-289
Although Thomas Paine may have been enlightened in regards to women's oppression, he did not make the similar connections of equality when it came to race. when he compares the various Native American tribes to each other as examples of barbarous oppression to women, he begins to only come off as overwhelmingly ethnocentric. Racism aside, his point about men both tyrannizing and being slave to women is progressive for the eighteenth century. --Mae D'Amico

The opening to Paine’s letter was almost as if it were an advertisement. He gives the facts of what other countries are doing with their women and it sounds as if he wants women and men to conform to other countries way of life. Thomas Paine uses women as an advertisement as well as an example of balance in one’s life. He also uses the example of women as modernizing to the other parts of the world. –Courtney Collier

Despite Paine's acknowledged that women should have more rights in this letter the tone still managed to come across as rather patronizing. He still believed that women were not quite equal to men because he implied at the beginning of this letter that they need to be protected from the horrors of the world. Another problem with this letter was that he mashed a variety of cultures together under a common banner, pretending that all women were all treated the same with similar cultural backgrounds. Admittedly his point that women ought to be treated better is a wonderful message, but he could have conveyed it differently. -Kearsten Lehman

I thought it was very interesting what Payne had to say about native american culture towards women. I found that in our class discussions women were treated much better. It seems that Payne, like early English settlers, was thrown off by the dismantling of the traditional English patriarchy. It definitely strikes me as odd. . . mainly because Payne was an enlightenment writer and I would expect more from him in this aspect. - Tanner Carlton

I found it interesting how Payne compared the lives of not only Native women living near the colonies, but also the women of Asia. He acknowledges that men of all types have been involved in the oppressing of women, but at the same time his "outrage" comes off as mockery to the women's cause. Sure he sees these injustices, but at the same time he sees oppression as the manly thing to do in order to protect a woman. --Charlotte O.

4 A Carolina Patriot by Eliza Wilkinson, 1782
Wilkinson's writing reveals how gendered the spheres of life were in the 1700s. Women were to occupy the domestic sphere- keeping house, raising children- while men participated in the public sphere- jobs and politics. She stands up to these ideals in stating that even if women are weaker in terms of physical strength, they can regardless possess mental strength, just as men. Her writing reveals what probably many women thought at the time and she was lucky enough to have the means to express those thoughts. -Suzannah Carretto

Wilkinson recalls her friend Major Moore comparing the oppression of the British as akin to forcing the colonists into slavery. That she runs a plantation and so controls slaves who are literally slaves doesn't enter into her language. She reproduces the major's comment with pride and without connecting it to the slavery she participates in and profits from. In her final paragraph, she writes, "Blush, O Britons, and be confounded! your delight is cruelty and oppression; divested of all humanity, you imitate savages; neither age nor sex can move compassion; even the smiling babe suffers by your hands and innocently smiles at its oppressor." You could make this passage about the dehumanizing slave trade without changing a word. Wilkinson can condemn Britain’s treatment of the colonist and men’s treatment of women, but she can’t make the logical leap and condemn white colonists’ treatment of their black slaves. --Sarah Palmer

5 Mary Jemison Views the Revolution
Mary Jemison's account of the Revolutionary War was quite interesting for it offered a different view of the war than is traditionally offered. The treaty and bribing done by both sides during the war: the British and the Colonists/rebels to try to keep the Native Americans on their side is rarely mentioned in most accounts. Additionally, Jemison's account of the relations of the tribe among themselves and with others was unusual simply because few people truly recorded those interactions. -Kearsten Lehman

Jemison didn't directly address her opinion about the Native American/British alliance. Once four of the six tribes allied themselves with Britain, were the Native American women expected to hold strong political opinions in the same way that colonial women were, or did their separation from the situation ease this expectation? -Katherine Miller

The account of the Revolutionary War that was given by Mary Jemison is interesting in comparison to all of the others. She gives an account that is less often heard because of coming from an Indian settlement. She gives good insight however on what it was like to by a Native woman at this time period. She mentions having to leave to create a new safe/home base following the attack of General Sullivan, as well as the tasks she had to do when visitors came to the town and would stay with her.--Charlotte O.

6 Sarah Osborn, Camp Follower, Recalls the Revolution, 1837
In the section about Jefferson’s slaves, people were wondering what exactly women could contribute to assist the troops. This account is a good example of a way women could contribute at the time. It shows how Osborn followed her husband and the troops and was able to help them by cooking for the troops. – Jess Hopkins

7 Phillis Wheatley, 1768, An address to George III
I recently learned in Prof. Mackintosh's class, History of the American Revolution, that colonists tried to use the rhetoric of slavery to describe their relationship to Great Britain before the Revolutionary War. The British would not take them seriously because the Colonists owned actual slaves. Phillis Wheatly made that irony all the more apparent with her patriotic but also anti-slavery poems that were, of course, censored. --Mae D'Amico

This poem has subversive tones to it. i think this parallels what we were learning about slaves resisting their masters by using sarcasm and other subversive tones. This was a direct form of resistance that would have been hard to punish someone for, especially in a poem because it would have been hard to prove her intent. - Amy Wallace

I'm not as convinced that Wheatley's poem is meant to be sarcastic Though she would later support the Revolution, there is no telling what Wheatley's mindset was in the late 1760s. Though British troops landed in Boston in 1768, the same year her poem was published, real violence would not break out until two years later with the Massacre. Who's to know that Wheatley did not welcome them? -Ryan Quint

The education that Phillis Wheatly received from her owners shows a significant difference in how slavery in the north was in many ways often times different from slavery in south. Phillis recueved a full education from the family. She was also was sent on a trip to England by her masters, where she published some poetry that she had written. I find all of this very interesting and believes that it helps to show how at least some slaves in the north were luckier than the majority of slaves in the south. Ike C.

8 Grace Galloway’s diary, 1778-79, Philadelphia
Galloway describes her frustration that her husband's political views, as well as her own, became so important during this time period. I find it interesting that even though women weren't formally educated about politics, they were expected to hold strong political ideals that agreed with their husband's beliefs. If the community didn't like the husband's views, the wife was held accountable for this. In Galloway's case, this accountability continued even after her husband left town. -Katherine Miller

9 Abigail Adams, Remember the Ladies, 1776
I am impressed not only by Abigail Adam's ideals of womanhood, but also by her advance literacy. Yet, I am wondering whether or not her generalization that men as a sex are "naturally tyrannical is a truth so thoroughly established as to admit no dispute" is not just as gross a stereotype as their thinking that all women are of a weaker intelligence? Perhaps her argument would have been more accepted by her husband if she had omitted such a statement, since that is the point John argues most in his rebuttal. - Katie Redmiles

I felt that Abigail Adam’s tone towards her husband in the letter showed that her power in the relationship was relatively well. She used threats as a way of persuading him to put in a good word for the women. I also thought it was clever for her to make the women seem like a unit that was a force to be reckoned with. By grouping women into a category, Adams was able to threaten her husband because of his fear that a women’s rebellion would only bring more issues.-Courtney Collier

Contrary to Abigail Adams' belief that she has "help'd the Sex abundantly," I think she only helped reinforce John Adams' investment in the status quo. While he tries to reassure his wife that society is only patriarchal in theory, he fully rejects the notion that women should be given any more power than under British common law. His response reflects period male beliefs that women do not deserve more legal or political power, although women like Abigail demonstrate that they are perfectly capable of forming their own political beliefs. -Mary Fesak

I honestly do not understand why Abigail Adams, "Remember the Ladies" message is considered a turning point for American women?! "Remember the Ladies" was a personal message to John Adams and despite Abigail's threat to "foment a Rebelion" if John Adams ignored her, John Adams did very little to "Remember the Ladies." The role of women in society did not change; men still had much greater political power than women did. As a result, I would argue that Abigail Adams did not "help'd the Sex abundantly." Is "Remember the Ladies" so significant because it inspired women of future generations to advocate for women's rights? -Melanie Houston

I'm not ever happy with this letter by Abigail Adams to John, I feel like she doesn't have a lot of power in the relationship. I know that Courtney in her comment above said that her power must be relatively well but it his reply is basically like "Oh that's cute". He seems patronizing and it doesn't help that she doesn't start a revolution like she tells him and to Mercy Otis Warren. It just seems so disheartening to see that Abigail completely wrote a well-thought out argument and her husband simply patronizes her. I know that Abigail didn't really start a revolution and that her husband patronized her but I wonder if this did affect any of his policy making? - Sandra Sanchez

Abigail Adams shows the power she has in her marriage through her writing. I think it is important to know that she was reminding her husband to think of the women when they were writing the Declaration of Independence. She uses political terms which prove that she is not ignorant. She knows what is going on and what she wants. – Katie Way

In many classes I have taken there is always mention of the letters between Abigail Adams and her husband and the line “Remember the Ladies.” However this is the first time I have ever read any of the letters. From the letters one can tell how John Adams does not take his wife seriously. And even though they joke about it, it clearly hurts Abigail or she would not have bothers to write to Mercy Warren to discuss it. It amazes me that John does not take his wife seriously and tells her as much. - Morgan H.

This piece doesn't seem as "revolutionary" to me as I suppose it should. On the one hand, a woman at that time being so incredibly literate and eloquent in her writing is advanced; however, Abigail Adams has enough influence to get away with being well-educated and opinionated without being chastised as being any kind of threat or stepping out of her gendered roles. She is not radically speaking on behalf of women; instead, she is suggesting an equal, (or at least closer to equal), distribution of power. - Becca Sherman I have always found Abigail Adam’s letters to her husband John Adams very interesting. I find it amusing how she keeps somewhat jokingly, in appearance, suggesting that John should remember Women while he is helping set up the new government. I also find it interesting How John Adams sort of evades this responsibility by simply saying that women are already in charge of men. I think that it could be possible that John Adams simply didn’t want to have to compete with his wife in the political arena. Ike C.

10 Benjamin Rush, “Thoughts upon female education,” 1787 (Philadelphia)
Benjamin Rush's branches of literature seem only to apply to "refined women" or the upper classes. How would a poor family afford the education of their daughters in subjects like keeping books, vocal music, and dancing? --Mae D'Amico

It is interesting that the goal of female education was not really to enhance the mind, but to fulfill a woman's duty to assisting her husband. "An acquaintance" with geography, bookkeeping and vocal music, to name a few, are necessary for a woman to be "an agreeable companion" to her husband. -Suzannah Carretto

Benjamin Rush’s proposal is progressive on its face, but ultimately it’s advocating female education as patriarchal indoctrination, intended to make women better helpmeets, not educated citizens for their own sake. Female education here is a political statement for breaking way from the European, aristocratic ways of running a country; women must become educated because the men will be so much busier these days with all that democracy. While he does promote a wider area of study for women, he aims the bulk of his talk towards the men in the audience and only mentions the women who are there in there in the last section. He does compare expanding the education of women with “the general diffusion of knowledge among the citizens of our republic,” putting female education in the larger context of the need for democracies to have an educated populace, but he ends his speech by saying that “weak and ignorant” women will “always be governed with the greatest difficulty.” The curriculum he prescribes is all about restraining women to the benefit of men. And as Mae points out, it's a prescription only for the upper classes as well.

Benjamin Rush clearly stated that "women needed to be trained to manage efficient households, to be "steward" and "guardians" of a husband's property. As mother, they had to raise virtuous citizens, to train their sons "in the prin ciples of liberty and government." If that was Rush's goal, than why did he suggest bookkeeping and vocal music? Why not teach women Politics or Law? Wouldn't Law or Politics help train boys to grow and be better men in society? -Melanie Houston.

Something to consider with Rush’s lecture on women’s education is that his target audience was men. It was men who were leaders and who he had to convince of this new educational system for women. I am not saying that he does not believe what he is saying. However, he is not going to convince men in a strongly patriarchal society that women should have a more academic curriculum because it would better the women themselves. If he wanted to convince men, specifically the leaders of the society, of the necessity of a more thorough education of women, he needed to convince those men of how it would benefit them. – Jess Hopkins

Perhaps I've been taught about early colonialism in ways that are much too black and white; however, it seems as though whenever I'm learning about English settlers, they're either attempting to maintain English customs exactly or they're desperate to escape English rule and to start new. This piece takes a very practical look at what differences must be made in women's education to accommodate the changes in the American environment from that of Great Britain. Even though much of what Rush said was coming from a patriarchal perspective, I found it admirable the ways in which he attempted to account for the changes in the new space. - Becca Sherman

11 Taylor & Duffin Report Molly Brant's Opinions and Influence, 1778 Daniel Claus assesses Molly Brant's Influence, 1779
I'm not sure if I understood this reading. Here’s how I see it: Miss Molly lives with important Indian men. Her brother is in the front lines of the revolution which is a mixed race unit (Whites and Indians). Molly somehow knows he is going to penetrate the British Arm and the she is paid for this information. The power that these military men seem to give Molly is incredible; she clearly has an important role a communicator between Indians and Whites making her a valuable spy. However her power is limited in that she thinks the military move is risky, but that won’t stop them. Yet, men seem a heed her advice and value her opinion. -Kasey Moore

12 Esther DeBerdt Reed, “Sentiments of an American Woman,” 1780
In "Sentiments of an American Woman", Esther DeBerdt Reed seems like she's making a "rally the troop" speech in which is she attempting to make women involved and in support of the Revolution. Ester is a Patriot and is trying to appeal to women that might be patriots as well. She's showing that women are just as important in the efforts of the Revolution. I wonder if her words appealed to any women and if it appealed to any change? - Sandra Sanchez

I felt that this speech made women out to be fame seekers, "our ambition is kindled by the fame of those heroines of antiquity". She harkened so much to the greatness of women of the pasting and claiming they need to be more like them. I saw Ester as power hungry in a sense. On the other hand, she was very compelling in that she made it seem commonplace for women to participate in the war effort. – Kasey Moore

Esther DeBerdt Reed makes a strong effort to rally women during the Revolution saying, in regards to men, " . . . we should at least equal, and sometimes surpass them in our love for the public good." To me, It shows a woman finding empowerment in her certain situation. Reed realizes her place in colonial society, and still manages to find her voice, highlighting the worthiness of her and other women around her. Very similar to homegrown efforts during other wars that the United States has taken part in (i.e. WWI, WWII). Reed definitely displays a firm belief on the war effort, even mentioning Spanish and French women's previous successes. -- Tanner Carlton

13 Thomas Jefferson’s Slaves Join the British, 1781
It appears as though a fair number of Thomas Jefferson's slaves who joined the British were female. How could African American women contribute to the British cause when they had so few rights to begin with? -Suzannah Carretto

Jefferson's slaves ran because the British promised emancipation upon victory. People like Dunmore in Virginia had hundreds of slaves run from their old plantations and join the British forces. As far as women, there were plenty of things they could do in a British camp and be paid for it by the soldiers; an experience they had never had as slaves under Jefferson. -Ryan Quint

Why did so many of these slaves die? Was it the journey away from the plantation? Or was it the conditions at the camps? -Dana Nordling

Reading this list was quite interesting for slightly more than half of the slaves that ran away appear to have been women and most appear to have died. Oddly though, several of these slaves are said to have returned to Jefferson before being listed as dead. Why did they return? -Kearsten Lehman

After looking at the list of slaves that joined the war, I noticed that a lot of them were women. How could these women join the war and what were they responsible for doing? I was also wondering why some of the slaves would return back to the plantation? – Katie Way

At first I thought the list of Jefferson’s slaves was impressive, that that many slaves decided to leave his plantation. But then I realized how many slaves Jefferson had and so in comparison the list is actually pretty small. What was surprising was the number of women and children that fled from the farm. - Morgan H.