471A3--Week 5 Questions/Comments--Thursday

Readings I still find the southern justification of slavery to be completely backward. The more I read, the less surprised I am now becoming. For instance, the southern textbook A School History of the United States stated that the abolitionists had branded slavery as a "moral wrong", but the Southern people knew that "the kindest relations existed between slaves and their owners" and that the Ku Klux Klan during Reconstruction necessary "for self-protection." (pg69). It is just interesting to me that Southerners fought so hard to clean their image and make the war not about slavery. Also the fact that they wanted to teach the new generation of Southern youth that their cause in the war was for rebellion.-- George H Having grown up in the South I was never exposed to the "Personal Memoirs of U.S. Grant" or the arguments that he makes. I can honestly say that I have never read anything as critical of Robert E. Lee as Grant is in his Memoirs. In addition the story of Grant's failing health and the effort on his part to complete the Memoirs is a heroic tale in itself and should be taught. Is the "Lee myth" still pervasive in the North as well as South? Does anyone ever recall hearing this portrayal of Grant and his Memoirs? - Jason I had a similar experience to Jason, growing up in the South I wasn't exposed to this either, and I definitely didn't read anything critical about General Lee or Grant really...in my school we really go through the Civil War quickly and focus on the Revolutionary War. I actually didn't know that Grant had so many problems with his health and think that it was REALLY cool to see his determination to finish his memoirs. -Meg O  I agree with Meg and Jason on this; I think that Lee has really taken over the narrative, even in the North. I am still really interested in modern interpretations of the Civil War. How has this section, perhaps especially the Grant portion, given us better insight into the problems of collective/school-instructed memory. -- Carly B. As I said in my blog post, I thought that it was really interesting to read about the children’s literature that came out after the Civil War. It gave me a different perspective on the war. We have read about the soldiers and about the women but by reading about the literature it started me wondering about how the war affected the children. I also thought that it was interesting to see how the children were included with the wave of memory that took place after the war with the printing of the novels. –Kayle P. The fight over textbooks goes on. I think that it amazing that this is an issue that still exists even today. What I found compelling about this reading was that so many different groups were involved and once again the spirit in which the South went after what they believed was right. I think that this shows that Lost Cause spirit, since even after they lost the war, they still want it “to go down in the history books” their way. –Kayle P After reading the Grant article, I started to recognize my own impressions of Grant and Lee were similar to how Joan Waugh described them. While she doesn’t go into this in her article, I would be interested to know how the Lost Cause has influenced the memory of these two men in textbooks and state standards. Was Grant really as crappy a person as my teachers made him out to be? Or is it because I grew up in Virginia, and everyone loves Lee here? -- Brooke The two articles about Children's literature and Children's textbooks are great examples of how the memory of the Civil War was instilled in a new generation. It reminded me of our reading for Tuesday, when reconciliation between Northern and Southern veterans was helped along by passing similar virtues onto their children. However, today's reading makes it seem like instead of bringing the two sides together, their wish to teach children what they deem as the truth separated them even further. -Cameron F. One thing that really stands out from the reading was a quote from a letter from Grant saying, “I have given the subject of arming the negro my hearty support. This, with the emancipation of the negro, is the heaviest blow yet given to the Confederacy” (11). This quote sums up what seems to be a common idea taken from the Civil War. We remember the emancipation and enlistment of African Americans into the Union Army as something that the Union wanted and used as an asset to win the war. --Kelly F. I thought this was an interesting quote Kelly chose. It stood out to me as well during the reading for being powerful and more importantly showing Grant's support for the enlistment of black soldiers. However, I found Grant's support a little ironic due to the fact he himself owning a slave and his wife owning several slaves as well, prior to the Civil War. Although I recognize people's views on social issues change, it seems (and this may be a stretch) Grant's stance on black enlistment was more a move to gain northern support. As a whole, northern attitudes supported black soldiers enlisting into the Union Army, so possibly Grant saw this as method to gain future support. -- Donald P.   I was inspired by the textbook article by James McPherson for my resource post this week. One of the lines that intrigued me most was the line about the little girl who “had burnt her book up, for ‘it made the Yankees win all the battles.’” Although I understand that it would be untruthful to say the Union won all the battles, I wonder if the book only really stated the factual victories of the Union, and this displeased the little girl to think that the Union won anything. With every article/excerpt we read, it becomes more understandable why the Lost Cause still persists today and the North just shrugs it off. -- Brooke Rutherford's instructions for the historical committee were very telling of the ways in which the lost cause tried to create a benign image of the South and their rebellion. They downplay the role of the federal government by only displaying the union as a collection of states and look to promote the right to secede from the union. His instructions also attempted to erase the issue of slavery and unjust treatment of slaves from history. This set up instructions on how to choose textbooks would have, in my opinion, taught children that the south had the right to secede and that the North was the oppressive party involved. --Matt A. As others have mentioned, the McPherson reading about textbooks and Fahs reading about childrens literature were really interesting because it shows yet another side to Civil War memory we don't get to read much about. I was fairly surprised by the drive Southerns had to push the Lost Cause ideology onto their children. It was almost as if they felt the need to brainwash them because they may get led astray by outside ideas. Rutherford's ideas of historical facts that were promoted by the UDC and the UCV was even more shocking because her "facts" went above and beyond the norm of Lost Cause thinking. --Mary O. The article by James McPherson on textbooks in the south, while profoundly shocking, provides yet another insight into how the south won the battle in public memory after the war. We've seen how proponents of the lost cause used memorials, books, soldiers accounts and re-unions to implant the lost cause but perhaps there was no greater insurance of its survival then by pushing the narrative into the education of southern children. This is likely the reason why the Lost Cause is so ingrained in the South, even today.- Sean

I found McPherson's piece interesting, but believable. What I didn't realize, however, was the distinction between textbooks in public schools and private schools. McPherson briefly mentions Rutherford's discovery that "private schools and colleges might still harbor Yankee textbooks" (72). I would have enjoyed seeing more information about why private schools in the South weren't going along with the UDC's efforts. What sort of children mostly attended them? -Carly W. "There has never been a moment since Lee surrendered that I would not have gone more than halfway to meet the Southern people in a spirit of conciliation. But they have never responded to it. They have not forgotten the war." (17) The division between the North and South continued despite their forced reunification after the Civil War. The southerner's vilification of Grant and deification of Lee led to further hostile relations, due to Grant's perceived actions in the South. Grant identified the major division between the two regions of the US. This major feud, despite being on a larger scale, reminds of current day problems facing Americans. Although we are unified on geographically, we still are divided politically. Division in the US is constant and consistently occurs throughout its history in to today. -- Donald P.

Optic represented Victorian models of what the southern home would look like. Optic creates a scene that embraces duty to the mother country, adventure, and the mother’s role as spiritual and moral leader. After the war, people wanted to remember what these southern ideals felt like. Juvenile readers wanted to experience what southern manhood meant and experience adventure of war. Optic used current issues and ideals of the world in his writings, like the financial struggles of the 1880’s. - Hannah

Debate ideas In reference to children's literature during the Civil War and again into the 1880-90s, how did the portrayal of African-Americans change for northern authors? Why do you think this change has occurred?-- George H In his "report to Congress" Grant describes that he chose "to hammer continuously against the armed force of the enemy, and his resources, until by mere attrition, if in no other way, there should be nothing left to him..." (Waugh, 13) How much is Grant to blame for the Lost Cause tenet that the South only lost because of the North's overwhelming numbers? - Jason Grant criticizes Lee's tactics during the Overland Campaign because Lee who was certainly outnumbered "acted purely on the defensive, behind breastworks, or feebly on the offensive immediately in front of them, and where, in case of repulse, he could easily retire behind them." (Waugh, 13-14) Estimates general show that the Union suffered many more casualties then the Confederates during the Overland Campaign and that the Confederates were indeed significantly outnumbered. Grant was criticized for needlessly sacrificing his soldiers for his own glory. Statistically, it would appear that Lee's tactics were smart. Could it be that Grant is attacking Lee to refute the criticism that he was receiving? - Jason Was Grant seeking to promote a truthful version of history or was he writing history for the money and in a way that would make him the most money?? What were his intentions and goals?? --Matt A. Adding to Matt's question, I'm wondering if Grant was actually writing what he thought to be the truthful memory of the war or was he making sure that his last contribution the public was a memory of the Union (and himself) that was supported by the occurrences in the 24 year (according to Waugh) gap between his memoirs and the war? (Keeping in mind that he was able to write in response to things such as the Lost Cause Movement and the Official Records of the War of the Rebellion (9). --Carly W.  On pg. 139, Brown mentions how the North and South agreed on Calhoun's image but how they strongly disagreed on the value of his influence. What was the value of his influence and why did the sides debate it? - Ana Y.  Is the fact that the South purged textbooks that disagreed with key Lost Cause tenets the reason why even today the Lost Cause is such a integral part of southern memory?-Sean  I want to know what the relationship of Lee and Grant was before the war, it seems that although giving him backhanded compliments that there was a history before the war.  Did they go to military school together like so many of the other generals? -Meg O The changing gender relations as the Lost Cause grew in power--Both Fahs and Brown's articles talk about the tension between genders, but don't go incredibly far with how this was affected by the Lost Cause. -- Brooke This question/debate topic is broad, by necessity, but I think it's a good time to ask: This set of readings covers a wide variety of places and issues and characters. What does it tell us about memory? What about the course as a whole? Can we come to any conclusions at this point? --Carly B.