471A3--Week 11 Questions/Comments--Tuesday

After reading about Mitchell's life in the "Screening the Book" chapter, I realized how much of Scarlett's life related to Mitchell's (not sure if this was something people already knew, but I had never realized it.) Not only do  people seem to have a constant fascination with the Civil War, but many aspects of the novel can still be related to peoples lives. For example, Scarlett "ran" Tara (if I remember correctly) at one point, and Mitchell had to go home and function as the head of the family household after her mother died. The suave, "bad guy" husband of Mitchell's sounds very similar to Rhett Butler (and her husband's name was Red), and Mitchell grew up in a house that was used as a hospital during the war (and many people consider the hospital scene to be the most gruesome of the movie). Realizing these connections I thought that, in a weird way, maybe people can relate to the the book/movie because they find similarities to their own lives. Even if people aren't as dramatic as Scarlett, she is still a figure that manages to overcome in difficult times (depending on how you look at it) and can be some kind of a role model. (Cannot believe I'm calling her a role model, but maybe some people do see her as that). I know it sounds weird, but maybe its a reason other than the Civil War that people are so fascinated with GWTW. -Carly W. I noticed the similarities too! I think that it probably does make her more relatable to some people. I think the fact that Scarlett’s experiences are based in real life make Scarlett a little more human (though not much of a human) I agree that she does show some characteristics that can be seen in role models (her determination, her strength and her ability to overcome) so I think that this depiction combined with the fact that it is based on Mitchell’s life help make Scarlett the character she is. –Kayle P I thought that the 30 year gap between Shenandoah and Glory was interesting. This topic was important and popular during that time so I can’t imagine that there would have been that large of a gap when Civil War movies or movies that related to the Civil War were not being produced. My only thought is that filmmakers started to shy away from the topic because of the era not due to the lack of popularity in the film content. Any other thoughts? –Kayle P

I find it interesting that "The Birth of a Nation" made such landmark profits during its debuts around the nation. Despite all the NAACP protests (which even in the organizations infancy seemed quite strong and well connected), Chadwick notes that the film made 10 of millions on a film style that no one thought would gain any success let alone the most success. I tried to parse out whether this success was due to its groundbreaking cinematography or whether a majority of the nation agreed with the films portrayal of the war and post war environments. My final thoughts disturbed me. The fact that the northern and western states brought in far more profits along with the fact that the viewers tended to be from middle and lower classes led me to believe that the latter explanation would be truer to the situation. Not to mention the (what i see to be ) awkward idea of having Klansman ride through each town to advertise, the folks going to see this film had to know, prior to viewing it, what the film would portray and the massive audience proved that people wanted to see this type of film. --Matt A. "The Klan was on the rise during WWI and the 1920s sparked at least to the same extent by the phenomenal popularity of BOAN." (79, Screening the book) Although Mitchell claims that she had no intention of putting down blacks in her movie, the author argues that he made slaveholding whites the true victims of the Civil War. Some of the evidence from her book contradicts her claim. Is her book the reason for the rise of the Klan in this period? I think it definitely aided in it, but surely it is not the sole reason for it.-Ana Y “Black leaders argued that BOAN did more then mangle history, it completely fabricated it.” (114, Chadwick) How do you think that this affected the memory of African Americans from this time?- Ana Y.  I enjoyed Cullen's analysis of GWTW, but was taken by surprise by one of his comments. "If GWTW were nothing more than a distillation of the anti-Tom tradition, it would have long since passed into a twilight zone...there must be something else at work that keeps GWTW the kind of story that people without undergraduate degrees or postdoctoral fellowships (and some that have college degrees, as well) read or watch in their leisure time." (p. 70) At first I thought I read it wrong. There is nothing in the context about education levels and his/her statement wreaked of intellectual elitism. Any thoughts on why he would mention education levels? - Jason Throughout the semester I have correlated much of the study of Civil War to nostalgia. Once again we see an instance where the North is more "guilty" than the South when it comes to memory and racial attitudes. Chadwick points out that the play "The Clansman" (p. 98) and the movie "The Birth of a Nation" (p. 132) fared better in the North than in the South. Was nostalgia at play? Were Northerners trying to reconnect to a history that was never really their's (envious)? Were they simply curious about Southern society and thought that these depictions were educational? - Jason Like a few have mentioned, I was also surprised to see how much Mitchell's life influenced the character of Scarlet. I have read the book, and seen the film numerous times, but never knew that Mitchell put so many personal aspects into the character. I enjoyed the Gallagher reading, though I usually tend to like his writing style. He made a lot of good points with how Hollywood has handled the Civil War genre. --Mary O. One thing that stuck out to me was on page 107 in the Chadwick article. When describing Birth of a Nation he states, “When viewers are introduced to the Cameron family, its members are portayed as refined people with a long tradition of graciousness and wealth, different from their friends, the Northern Stonemans.” This reminded me of our discussions in class where we talked about how we view the north versus the south. We have talked about how people see those from the south being more refined and polite than those from the north. It is interesting to see how the stereotypes come out in these movies. –Kelly F. In the Gallagher article, there was a discussion about the Lost Cause. It has been such a big theme in our class so I thought I would talk about it on the wiki. It was interesting to see how the Lost Cause Ideology is also in GWTW. A quote from the film by Ashley Wilkes states, “Oh, Scarlett, my men are barefooted now, and the snow in Virginia is deep. When I see them, and I see the Yankees coming and coming, always more and more…” I just thought it was interesting to see how it played into the movie. –Kelly F In the Chadwick reading, I was surprised that the Birth of a Nation had bigger box office sales in the North and West than in the South. I thought that Southerners would be excited to see a movie about their romanticized past glory days than the North who still harbored ill will towards the former Confederates. The wider viewer audience in regions other than the South could explain the wide acceptance of the Southern stereotype of the time period as backward and racist. Removed from actual Southern society, all these people know if from what they read in papers and books and see in movies. And the image presented to them in Birth of a Nation is definitely memorable. -Cameron F.

Mitchell's social and familial views appear to stem from her upbringing, as her parents grew up during Reconstruction. These appear to be transmitted into GWTW. Mitchell seemed like a rebel in Southern society and etiquette. I can see where she got Scarlett's sass. -Hannah

Since we discussed Gone with the Wind last semester in the film class, I really enjoyed seeing a bit of a closer look into Mitchell’s life. I was shocked by the “inverted anthropomorphism” (76). That’s all I’m really going to say about that because it just made me uncomfortable. And UGH! I realize how impossible it would be without Mitchell alive today to know, but I want to know why Rhett respected Mammy! (77) You just can’t leave us like that! I also want to comment on using the n-word in film. While I don’t have access to the footnotes for this (n.40), I would be curious to know why Selznick regretted omitting the word. Even today, we hear controversy over this, like when Django: Unchained came out and many criticized the film for using the word. Finally, I realized while reading this that Scarlett is nothing like the woman I’ve read about in my research on women during the Civil War. I feel like I had assumed this, but after reading Cullen’s chapter, it became clearer. On page 97 he says, “Early in the war, she realizes that she is not like other women, women who blaze ‘with the white heat of devotion to the Cause that was still shining on ever face.’ To her, ‘the war didn’t seem to be a holy affair, but a nuisance that killed men senselessly and cost money and made luxuries hard to get.’” -- Brooke I was also going to comment about how Mitchell gave the characters animal characteristics in GWTW. She claimed that she wasn't racist because she respected her own servants. I'm wondering since she grew up in the south that her perception of racism isn't altered.-- George H

I appreciated Gallagher's point about how "more people have formed perceptions about the Civil War from watching Gone with the Wind than from reading all the books written by historians since Selznick's blockbuster debuted in 1939" (158). It ties in with Jason's point about nostalgia, I think. How much of this Civil War fever has to do with sentimental portrayals in movies and novels? - Carly B.

I didn't know a lot about The Clansman, but it's the stereotypical post-war, blacks are evil and will take over the legislature image I had imagined it would be. I think Griffith new what audiences would like: drama, romance, Southern pride. Birth of a Nation seems like it was created more for entertainment and creating a new type of cinema than making a historically accurate film. -Hannah

A topic we could discuss would also be cardinal directions we haven't considered much: East and West. Hollywood is in California (obviously), which is a long ways away from both Charleston and Boston. What are these implications? - Carly B. I would like to know how much (if any) of a role Mitchell had in the making of the movie. It reminds of of current movies that are based on books and how authors are included in alot of different aspects of casting and all that; which affects the outcome and message of the movie. I wonder if Mitchell had any say in the casting (especially of Scarlett) or script writing... -Cameron F.

I did not know anything about The Birth of a Nation before reading Chadwick, unfortunately I had only ever heard the name and nothing else, but it was really interesting to see how controversial the movie was and still is today. I thought it was interesting how the movie conveyed many different aspects, while obviously racist, I thought that the Lost Cause ideology shouted at you from the film. It was also interesting to see the impact Birth had on the movie industry and how it changed the way people viewed movies and changed how movies were thought to be used. -Meg O

I think an interesting topic we could discuss would be GWTW as a work of history...Cullen calls it this, and maybe its because I haven't seen the movie since 6th grade and didn't really have the patience for it but I didn't really see it as a piece of history as much as I saw it as a long/semi-boring movie, but maybe that's me being insensitive to culture.. -Meg O

In Chadwick's BOAN article, it was said that the movie was based of a book called The Clansman. It was first adapted into a play that was wildly successful. Chadwick did point out that the pay was even more successful in the north than the south. I was curious on why that is true. Was racism becoming stronger in the north at the time or was there just more people and outlets in the north to raise sales?

My one thought while reading the other two pieces: I really need to see these movies…I was excited when I read Gallagher’s essay and Cold Mountain came up! I loved the opening line: “Cold Mountain can best be understood as a feminist antiwar film that turns almost every Lost Cause convention on its head” (177). I’m glad he points out, however (though I believe this is the author I referenced for my project last semester), that slavery was basically removed from the film and book. I have to say I’m interested in the review by whomever has Cold Mountain this semester. I’m sure I’ll want to bring up some stuff from last semester. I also want to add a general note: we’re definitely not looking at movies the same way as we did last year. While last year it was like comparing “known”/”fact” to “portrayal,” this semester is more about the time in which it was made—primary source! -- Brooke